Talk:Red-throated loon

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Featured articleRed-throated loon is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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July 18, 2009Good article nomineeListed
January 22, 2017Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article
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My inclination would be to make the derivation the second sentence, or perhaps dagger the first sentence leading to the alternative names and derivation at the end. This bit could perhaps go below ---- or be small to distinguish it from the ornithogical bit. I think we are still feeling our way with a lot of the presentational bits jimfbleak 07:59, 19 April 2003 (UTC)

What's the source for RTD being able to take off from land - sounds improbable to me jimfbleak 05:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I did not write it, but I think it is true. There are some sources in the internet (for example: here [or here]).Weird Bird 09:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I think this article is within striking distance of GA, close enough for issue arising to be fixed wthin a day or twwo - thus Meegs, go and nominate :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
About time! :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Red-throated Diver/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi, I'll be doing this review. The article looks pretty polished already, but I'll give it a careful read over the next couple of days and see if I can find anything to nitpick about :) Sasata (talk) 17:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

As mentioned, the article is already in nice shape. I'll leave a few suggestions and comments below to think about. Sasata (talk) 07:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


  • suggest linking: pair bond, clutch  Done
  • "During the breeding season, it acquires the distinctive reddish throat patch which gives rise to its common name." "gives rise" = to cause or instigate, doesn't seem to be the best word choice here  Done
    changed to During the breeding season, it acquires the distinctive reddish throat patch which is the basis for its common name; is that okay?

Tax & ety


  • link wingspan  Done
  • "The sexes are similar," suggest adding " appearance"  Done
  • The latter part of the first paragraph does not have any citations, so it would be difficult to verify the information. Please put a cit at the end of the paragraph, even if it's a repeat of the last cit.  Done

Hab & dist

  • link vagrancy  Done
  • "including the Mediterranean, Aegean and Black Seas" Link these locations, imho. If I'm a 12 year old kid, chances are I won't know where these placed are, and I don't want to have to type stuff in the search box to find out  Done
  • "It has occurred as a vagrant as far south as Morocco, Tunisia and The Gambia." I think these locations might be unfamiliar enough to warrant wikilinking.  Done
  • "Some of its folknames..." I don't think folknames is a single word. Also, consider piping link to common name (folkname also used in Behaviour section)  Done


  • consider defining or wiktionary-linking diurnal  Done Wikilinked to diurnality; is that sufficient, or would you prefer definition?
  • link moult  Done
  • "...the Red-throated Diver loses its ability to fly sometime between early August and November." Am wondering if these dates referring to a general locale like N. America, or is this true of its entire Holarctic range?  Done That's true throughout its range (which is all in the northern hemisphere. Nevertheless, I reworded it to say "...loses its ability to fly sometime between late summer and late autumn" to avoid any hint of northern hemisphere bias!'
  • link fledging, clutch, Ornithologists  Done except for clutch, which was linked higher up
  • "both parents feed them (small aquatic invertebrates initially, then small fish) for 38–48 days." How about removing the parentheses and making the parenthetical thought a full-fledged member of the sentence?  Done


  • "global population trends haven't been quantified." Avoid contractions in formal writing  Done
  • link mercury, predator  Done

In human culture

  • "...traditionally used to make caps, collars and other clothing trim." Reword to eliminate possible ambiguity in the word trim  Done
    Changed to In some parts of Russia, Red-throated Diver skins were traditionally used to make caps and various clothing decorations, including collars.
  • link creation mythologies  Done
  • "the Red-throated Diver was thought to be a foreteller of storms;" Is this wording preferable? "the behaviour of the RTD was used to forecast the weather;  Done


  • how long does this bird live?  Done Added to modified "Breeding and survival" section
  • are there any similar species with which I might confuse this bird?
  • any distinctive flocking behaviour?
  • common parasites?  Done viral diseases?  Done

I've noticed GAN is usually just a pitstop before FAC for most bird articles I review; with that in mind, here's some advance ideas

  • suggest to add a profile of bird in flight (even just a cartoon outline would be informative)  Done
  • add non-breaking spaces after numbers&before units  Done
Is there a way to do this while using the "convert" template, or do I need to remove/replace those template uses?
I think the convert template automatically converts to nbsps for you. Also, don't forget to add them before units like "days" and "weeks". Sasata (talk) 17:56, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  • ISBN for first book source?  Done
  • refs 37,40,41,43 needs endash for page range; ref 18 has different page range format; ref 15 no year listed  Done
  • Checklinks shows that reference 36 is 404'd  Done

This article meets all the GA criteria listed below, and I see no reason not to promote at this time. Well done! Sasata (talk) 04:32, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
The article is well-written and it complies with MOS.
  1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c(OR):
    Well-referenced to reliable sources.
  2. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    I thought it was a good overview, compares well with coverage of other bird articles (both GA and FA).
  3. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  4. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  5. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    All images have appropriate free use licenses.
  6. Overall:
  • Thanks, Sasata, for a thoughtful and rigorous GA review; the article is definitely stronger as a result. MeegsC | Talk 07:52, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Towards FA....[edit]

OK, what do we feel needs doing about getting this one over at FAC? Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

  • It needs a map, and imho "similar species" should be integrated with "description". I've got some good sources, so I'll read through in the next few days Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:13, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I've got a "to do" list at the top of the page; that (and the remaining bits from Sasata's GA review) is probably all stuff that should be added. I've been working my way through the lists in the past week, and will continue to do so. Any volunteers of help happily accepted! MeegsC | Talk 11:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm quite happy to help, anything specific I could do? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:28, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
How are you at map making? MeegsC | Talk 14:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Aaaargh!?*! - I should have qualified my offer. Having said that, I've just bought PagePlus, so I'll see what I can do. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Do you have a preferred source map? If so, could you email it to me, otherwise I'll use Harrison, which isn't brilliant but it's the only global map I have. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:53, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Do you have access to HBW? The map's a bit small, but looks reasonable... MeegsC | Talk 17:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I'll have a map by tomorrow for your comments Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

<outdent> I've added a map, please have no qualms about removing or amending as you see fit. I decided against adding the wintering range; some sources don't give it, and others are wildly contradictory or misleading (i.e. wintering inland over the southern half of Europe). It should be easy enough for you to either shade the winter range or add a line for the southern limit in winter if you think it is necessary Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Jim! MeegsC | Talk 11:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Does the recent flurry of activity mean this is heading to the snake pit soon...? :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:41, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Hopefully! I've got several weeks of fieldwork coming up though, so it's gonna be a slow process... MeegsC | Talk 15:07, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Cute shetlands rhyme[edit]

This ref:

  • Armstrong, Edward A. (1970) [1958]. The Folklore of Birds. Dover. pp. 62–63. ISBN 0-486-22145-8.

as well as having the shetlands and faroese material, also has a shetland rhyme:

If the rain göse flees to da hill,

Ye can gang to da heof when ye will;
But when shö gangs to da sea,

Ye maun draw yir boats an flie

I guess it might be out of copyright... :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:10, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Old image and text[edit]

Illustration by George Edwards

In 1750, the plumage variation was obviously a source of confusion. See Shyamal (talk) 13:34, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Except that his description of a "Speckled Loon" (on page 148) is a rather good description of a Pacific Loon! MeegsC | Talk 13:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)


Cas cleared up a lot of stuff, but I added two full stops and several dates, Cas might not have been able to access some of those. Is it OK to parenthesise years in full refs but not short form? Personally, I'd parenthesise the lot. Jessup ref includes day of publication as well as month & year. I think that's OTT. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:47, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

FAC redux[edit]

O-kay @MeegsC: and @Jimfbleak: this one is more yours than mine - I just found a cool thesis and have added some stuff, which rounds out the evolution material quite well. You guys wanna have a look at the thesis and co-nominate (with each other, not me) or something? Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs)

Thanks Cas Liber, I'm going away for a week from tomorrow, so I'll leave this with @MeegsC:. I think this article should go to FAC; I can't see anything missing, but it's very much MeegsC's project, with only minor input from me, so I'm happy that it should be her solo nom. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:33, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Ok we'll wait for MeegsC. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:15, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
I'm just about to head off to Guyana for a month, but I can put it up before I go and hope I have at least intermittent internet (always a bit of a gamble in Guyana, particularly as I'll be in the bush down-country for most of it). Any nitpicks before I post it? MeegsC (talk) 14:06, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Recently hatched?[edit]

The caption of the top photo (in the infobox) describes the check depicted as "recently hatched". That chick is much too large to be recently hatched; other photos in the article show noticeably smaller chicks, and the size of the eggs confirms this. Suggest re-captioning to drop the modifier. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 14:22, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Good point, and well made. I've changed it. MeegsC (talk) 17:41, 29 July 2019 (UTC)